Curse

blackstarling · Jul 16, 2009, 01:53 PM // 13:53

On the same sort of topic as my previous posts... this one ought to stir up some conflicting opinions...

Before I go on:

I use this forum to price my minis. Whether or not the post is currently accurate or w/e should be discussed elsewhere. Try to keep this one about in game ethics.

I was selling dedicated minis today in LA. A player asked to see what I had so I showed him. I was selling a Lich Lord, Kirin, Koss, Necrid Horseman and Thorn Wolf. (All dedicated.) He asked for the Lich and Koss. I asked for 25k. (Lich 20k, Koss 5k) In chat he agreed, but once I had modified the offer, he also modified his. He put a row of minis in as his offer and asked if I would be interested in a trade. He had an undedicated Palawa and Roaring Ether that I wanted and added up to 25k. So I agreed and the trade went through. Ta Da! Everyone gets what they want!

Haunted by my recent experiences though, I PM'd him a couple minutes later to make sure that he knew he was getting dedicated minis. Even though my WTS said "ded" he might not have understood the abbreviation. While we were setting up the trade, I told him how I had just come back from dedicating the Lich... so it seemed pretty clear, but after I asked, he said No, he didn't realize that.

Okay so fine, reverse the trade and try again. I mean, yeah, I wanted the minis, but I was willing to wait. I can't exactly explain it, but he seemed like he was either younger (like 10-14yrs) or else very distracted. So naturally I felt the need to give him a second chance. I offered to reverse the trade. He said okay. I set up the trade so he just had to hit accept but he didn't. Then he asked if I would just give him the Necrid Horseman and we could call it even. I was okay with that. So I set up the trade, my Necrid Horseman for nothing. He accepted it. So now all was well. ...or was it?

So HE says... can I trade back when I want (Started taking screens at this point.)
ME: I suppose you can have them back when I dedicate them if you want. (At this point I was pretty much convinced he was a young kid. After they're dedicated I only sell them again, so fine, whatever. Yeah kid, you can have them back.)
HIM: don't dedicate them
ME: That's the only reason I wanted them.
HIM: Ok dedicate them then u will give them to me for free.
ME: I can do that. Just keep in mind that most people wouldn't make that kind of deal with you. If you don't want me to dedicate them at all, I will trade you back, no problem.
HIM: ok dedicate them them come back here and ill take them back ok
ME: We can just trade each other back if you want. (I didn't want him to feel pressured into having to let me keep them now that the trade was done. Especially if he was a kid who didn't really understand the way that minis work.)
HIM: no nvm
HIM: ok lets trade back
ME: Okay.
HIM: plz can i have my pets and i keep ur pets because they are dedicated plz
ME: Haha... no. The pets that I gave you are worth 30k at least (I wasn't trying to lie, I rechecked the site for prices and forgot to take half off the price of Koss. My bad.)
HIM: can i keep lich
ME: Nope.
HIM: ill give u charr for the lich

At this point he starts playing with the trade screen, putting up different minis in his offer as he's talking it out with me. He makes all sorts of crazy offers asking me to show him the other minis I have again. I humor him. He now offers me unded Mini Rurik for the minis he traded me back. I told him no. After the original trade was completed, we were even. Then I threw in the Necrid Horseman... w/e. Now he wanted me to give him 25k of minis for a 10k mini. I told him I wasn't interested and why. Then he tried to convince me how much Rurik was worth... etc... I'm getting impatient, but I figure I'd let him figure out what he wanted. After all, I had planned to sit in LA for a bit to sell my minis anyhow. I sent him a link the Guru page I use to for mini pricing. He disagreed with the prices. I didn't want to debate it anymore so I asked again if he'd rather reverse the trades to where we were before we started. After a few minutes he said yes. I offered him Palawa and Ether back and he submitted an offer to give me Koss and the Lich back. I asked him add the Necrid Horseman. He did. I hit agree... he hit... change offer.

I canceled the trade and zoned out. That was more than enough consideration I felt. The whole incident spanned about 20 minutes while he went back and forth changing his mind. He PM'd me asking me to come back and I told him no. He threatened to report me. I supplied him with links to the support page and the legal page on the Guild Wars website. He said that he would stop playing games, but kept threatening to report me at the same time. He said that all he wanted was to reverse the trade. I tried to explain to him that I had given him ample opportunity to do so and that if he hadn't been playing games, he would have had the minis back already instead of playing more games.... The very last message I saw from him said that he would also give me 3k if I came back to reverse the trade. I didn't answer him.

I think the whole situation went bad. So tell me guys, where did I go wrong? I know that everyone is going to have a different opinion on when and if they would have shut him down. Do you think what I did was wrong, or just the timing of it? (Was it okay to leave, but I should have done it sooner? Or should I have sat there as long as it took for him to come to a decision?) I'm really curious what your opinions are. (Especially after reading through my other posts! Some of you guys can be downright ruthless!)

I'm almost wondering if this guy was on of the trolls from a previous post just trying to catch me in a sticky situation or bug the crap out of me!

P.S. Sorry the posts is so choppy with the "I did this, he did this" stuff. I wanted to be as accurate as possible because I know someone is going to come along and dissect every last word of the post to use it against me! The reason I didn't post it all in screenshots is because I didn't get the full text copied. Also, in previous posts when I used screenshots, I don't think everyone read through them which led to uniformed posts etc... Oh, and no, I haven't dedicated the minis yet. I think I'm going to offer to reverse the trade again tomorrow...

Chushingura · Jul 16, 2009, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstarling

On the same sort of topic as my previous posts... this one ought to stir up some conflicting opinions...

Before I go on:

I use this forum to price my minis. Whether or not the post is currently accurate or w/e should be discussed elsewhere. Try to keep this one about in game ethics.

I was selling dedicated minis today in LA. A player asked to see what I had so I showed him. I was selling a Lich Lord, Kirin, Koss, Necrid Horseman and Thorn Wolf. (All dedicated.) He asked for the Lich and Koss. I asked for 25k. (Lich 20k, Koss 5k) In chat he agreed, but once I had modified the offer, he also modified his. He put a row of minis in as his offer and asked if I would be interested in a trade. He had an undedicated Palawa and Roaring Ether that I wanted and added up to 25k. So I agreed and the trade went through. Ta Da! Everyone GOT what they want!

That should have been the END.

Your mistake was PMing him back and starting another whirlwind :P

Aussie Boy · Jul 16, 2009, 02:08 PM // 14:08

LOL you either always attract the wrong person or all these threads and incidents are made up for some reason to draw attention to yourself?
I dunno and I'll keep an open mind in this but only advice I'd give is Stop Trading in game.

blackstarling · Jul 16, 2009, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chushingura

That should have been the END.

Your mistake was PMing him back and starting another whirlwind :P

Yeaaaah... I was 50/50 whether I should ask him if he was fully aware of the trade. But I myself made a dumb mistake in a trade earlier this week and I just couldn't stop thinking how I'd feel if I bought minis that were dedicated without paying attention. That and the whole I'm pretty sure he's a kid thing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aussie Boy

LOL you either always attract the wrong person or all these threads and incidents are made up for some reason to draw attention to yourself?
I dunno and I'll keep an open mind in this but only advice I'd give is Stop Trading in game.

LOL... you're not serious are you? I mean, I'd say in general I've been very lucky lately considering the mistake I made. But I mean, you're not serious about me making stuff up right? Besides which, I'd have to be under the influence of SOMETHING to make this kind of shit up! Thanks for the advice though.

Cracko · Jul 16, 2009, 02:31 PM // 14:31

you care too much for ethics ingame man.

I tried it a while, but then figured out it isnt productive and there is a big chance the person you are having the dilemma with just wants money, and does not care about the same ethics you are holding.

*Darcy* · Jul 16, 2009, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstarling

So I set up the trade, my Necrid Horseman for nothing. He accepted it. So now all was well. ...or was it?

You should have left it there. You had already explained in simple terms and offered him a bonus. Once he accepted that, you should have stopped.

My impression is that he began jerking you around to see if he could get anything else from you. Youth does not equate to stupid.

DO NOT go back and revisit this with that player. You are only asking for more frustration while he has fun.

exploiter · Jul 16, 2009, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstarling

Haunted by my recent experiences though, I PM'd him a couple minutes later to make sure that he knew he was getting dedicated minis. Even though my WTS said "ded" he might not have understood the abbreviation. While we were setting up the trade, I told him how I had just come back from dedicating the Lich... so it seemed pretty clear, but after I asked, he said No, he didn't realize that.

wtf? he even get a warning when he accept and there are ded minis in trade. I wouldnt care about him for a second after this

Chocobo1 · Jul 16, 2009, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Your weakness is rare; you are too kind.

Giving him the bonus Necrid Horseman showed him that he can push you to get a little bit extra, I guess thats what he kept trying to do. People can never just accept a good deal, they keep pushing to get the best they possibly can. I suppose thats a good thng, but it makes for tiring trades.

Nittle Grasper · Jul 16, 2009, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

You should have left it there. You had already explained in simple terms and offered him a bonus. Once he accepted that, you should have stopped.

My impression is that he began jerking you around to see if he could get anything else from you. Youth does not equate to stupid.

DO NOT go back and revisit this with that player. You are only asking for more frustration while he has fun.

this - if it were me and I saw all the stuff he was doing I would of told no I wasn't interested in any other offers of trading minis and that I would give him a hour to make up his mind if whether he wanted trade back or not.

britnie31 · Jul 16, 2009, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Children in Guildwars , is GREAT ... Children TRADING in guildwars .. Not so great

dr love · Jul 16, 2009, 03:18 PM // 15:18

i love trading with little kids

it's like stealing candy from a baby. mehmehmehmehmeh!

Abedeus · Jul 16, 2009, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Wow, you are so easy to exploit.

BrettM · Jul 16, 2009, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

You should have left it there. You had already explained in simple terms and offered him a bonus. Once he accepted that, you should have stopped.

^^This. He had his choice of a complete reversal of trade at that point, and he asked for the Necrid Horseman instead. You went the extra mile, and anything after this was going far beyond the call of ethics. If he was still unsatisfied, then he will learn to be more careful with his trades in the future -- when he is dealing with others who will gladly rip him off without a second thought. You gave him more than ample opportunity to undo his mistakes, and there aren't many traders out there who would offer even one do-over.

Petra Arkanian · Jul 16, 2009, 04:09 PM // 16:09

What you did was really kind and one of the reasons I love Guild Wars is that there are so many really lovely people in it.

But if it was a kid you are doing him and the next people he tries to trade with no favours if he gets the message that it is OK to mess people around like that. My children play - and no they do not always understand what is going on - but dealing with situations is how they learn.

In my opinion once you had explained that the minis were ded and offered to reverse the trade if he was not happy you had done enough, and more than many people would do.

Keep trading

pumpkin pie · Jul 16, 2009, 04:54 PM // 16:54

I officially hate trading now, except selling to merchant

Why: it creates a lot of unnecessary problems, plus, because players wanting to buy stuffs, people like me get hacked.

Note: DEDICATE ALL YOUR MINIS! I didn't and now I don't have one single pet in my HoM.

citizensmith1001 · Jul 16, 2009, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Once you finished the original trade that should have been it,you say you clearly advertised that the minis were already dedicated and if that wasn't enough the buyer also gets a warning before completing a trade with dedicated minis.He was obviously trying to take advantage of your good nature,if i was you i would just chalk it up to experience and never make that same mistake again.

-rightuos- · Jul 16, 2009, 05:38 PM // 17:38

This is not a puzzle, you instigated yourself into an annoyance.

coil · Jul 16, 2009, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstarling

...and I just couldn't stop thinking how I'd feel if ...

there's your problem. cut that out.

Antares Ascending · Jul 16, 2009, 06:15 PM // 18:15

I agree with Darcy.

That said... You are honest and that will probably never change. This is a good thing. Unfortunatly honest people are seen by some dishonest people,
(several of who have posted here) as an opportunity to run a scam.

Don't change, 'trust but verify' comes to mind.

Shursh · Jul 16, 2009, 06:25 PM // 18:25

your initial trade went through, that should have been the end of the communication.

who cares if it was a kid, teenager, or an adult. they made the trade, they should be responsible enough to check what they are giving and receiving and whether those items are ded or unded.

let people be stupid if they want to - more profit for you!